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PostSubject: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:15 am

In order to create activity and ensure we have a group of people available to respond when the need for damage arises I propose the creation of a Presidential Guard that will operate as a Meta MU. They would be organized via in-game PM threads and would be given Tanks and Food for their food fights only when damage is requested by either the CP or MoD. By organizing in this way we increase our ability to call on damage when needed, increase efficiency, and help strengthen the larger Canadian community. In order to do this I ask Congress to spend 75,000 cc to begin the program. This would allow us to stockpile the weapons and food necessary to launch the program.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:22 pm

Could there also be a op-in component? Something that measures people's commitment in participating in the program. As an example, a member in the Presidential Guard supplies 500 Q7s to the PG and the government matches that, tank for tank or dollar for dollar. That may deflate those that will cry favoritism and the routing of government funds to cronies.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:11 pm

Foxfire wrote:
Could there also be a op-in component? Something that measures people's commitment in participating in the program. As an example, a member in the Presidential Guard supplies 500 Q7s to the PG and the government matches that, tank for tank or dollar for dollar. That may deflate those that will cry favoritism and the routing of government funds to cronies.

That would only allow those that produce their own tanks or are part of an MU that supplies Q7s to join. The idea is simple, anyone can sign up, but we will only supply people when we need damage and we will only supply them fo fights they do when we call for damage. Meaning if you do 100 food fights in a battle but we didn't ask for fighters you get nothing, but say I ask for D2 fighters in the in-game PM and you have 100 ffs I will supply you 10 Q7s and 1000 energy (if needed) to hit right then. It's the equivalent of opening our supply channel except that it will only be open to Canadian citizens or members of Canadian MUs. Anyone who signs up will have the opportunity to participate.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:39 pm

I don't see the need for an added layer of bureaucracy.

We already have Canadian MUs. The Executive presumably already has priorities. If there's a disconnect between these two then, by all means, let's work to resolve that. I just don't see the need to formalise it through the formation of a meta-MU.

When there's cash or weapons available for a fight, add a message to the MoD battle order article saying who it's for and how they can tap in. Shout the same message (or a link to the article, maybe) in MU threads and by individuals and hope that the MUs PM their members, too. That ought to be enough to get the word and get the fighters that you want.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:46 pm

A new meta(quasi)MU is a redundant issue. And it is like an act of personality cult.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:32 pm

I'm pretty sure other than Cordis we don't have another MU that supplies Q7s to troops. Adding it to battle orders will do nothing. The idea is to be able to have as many people on and available to hit when we need a push. Think of it as a precision strike force. It won't be used everyday or perhaps every week, but the idea is that when we need Canadians available to hit we have the infrastructure in place to ask for that damage and make sure they are not hitting with inferior weapons. This is about efficiency not a personality cult. The idea would be for it to continue from CP to CP no matter who was in office.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:37 pm

The logistics is you can only have 30 people in a PM. We usually create a PM with commanders and top tanks. Most those people don't need anything from any one. This is not even being used to it's full potential now.

How would you organize and communicate when you have this 30 person limit?

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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:40 pm

Exalted Druid wrote:
The logistics is you can only have 30 people in a PM. We usually create a PM with commanders and top tanks. Most those people don't need anything from any one. This is not even being used to it's full potential now.

How would you organize and communicate when you have this 30 person limit?


One or two (depending on the number of applicants) PM thread for each division. This way when you need D1 damage you only message D1 players.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:21 pm

Exalted Druid wrote:
The logistics is you can only have 30 people in a PM. We usually create a PM with commanders and top tanks. Most those people don't need anything from any one. This is not even being used to it's full potential now.

How would you organize and communicate when you have this 30 person limit?


As far as it being underutilized goes, we only need it when our allies have contested battles or when we're at war. We used it a lot during the war with Germany and to help Portugal against Croatia, other than that we haven't need it a lot and I would imagine the Presidential Guard would be about the same.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:52 pm

So what you would do then is have about 5 or so executive type people in both PM's for passing information and separate 25 individuals in each of the two. That would get you to about 55 people. The command thread would be merge into this new system as having both would be redundant as the information being passed is the same.

What I meant about the utilization is if someone knows something is happening tomorrow, tell us today, if at all possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:16 pm

I think the present system is as good as its going to get these days. I'd rather have the 75k for CO's. Most are very good at having there own supplies if they tank. Outside of that when members of the community ask for EPIC they are given donations.

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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:04 am

I think I either fail to understand your vision or you need to take another crack at explaining it.

How is this a meta-MU? Isn't this basically a tanking program available to Canadians only?

I need more specifics of exactly how you want this to run because I don't see additional PMs being of any more benefit than shouts and added info in articles. "We're fighting hard in this battle. Supplies available for Canadians available in #eCan." What more needs to be communicated?

I also agree that calling this the Presidential Guards is a bit of a vanity project. Are you going to exclude people who don't bend a knee? Better to just keep it open to all Canadian fighters regardless of any oaths of fealty, no?

Actually, if we're going to be spending $75k just to start on this, we should have far more information. Who's going to have the cash? How much are the going to be able to spend on a battle? What's the max you're going to give to a fighter per battle? Per round? Who will keep track?

I'm fine with finally getting back into the funding of Canadian soldier game, even if it's just for specific battles. But this is barely a back of the napkin kind of a plan here, with a presidential seal.

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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:17 am

Chochi wrote:
I think I either fail to understand your vision or you need to take another crack at explaining it.

How is this a meta-MU? Isn't this basically a tanking program available to Canadians only?

I need more specifics of exactly how you want this to run because I don't see additional PMs being of any more benefit than shouts and added info in articles. "We're fighting hard in this battle. Supplies available for Canadians available in #eCan." What more needs to be communicated?

I also agree that calling this the Presidential Guards is a bit of a vanity project. Are you going to exclude people who don't bend a knee? Better to just keep it open to all Canadian fighters regardless of any oaths of fealty, no?

Actually, if we're going to be spending $75k just to start on this, we should have far more information. Who's going to have the cash? How much are the going to be able to spend on a battle? What's the max you're going to give to a fighter per battle? Per round? Who will keep track?

I'm fine with finally getting back into the funding of Canadian soldier game, even if it's just for specific battles. But this is barely a back of the napkin kind of a plan here, with a presidential seal.


Most Canadians do not use irc, this is a means of keeping the greater community somewhat active and engaged while providing damage when and where we need it. The max a fighter would get would depend on the amount of ffs they have available for the battle and how much damage we need to swing the round our way. This essentially allows players who will not use irc to get involved when and where we need damage. 75k is an estimate as I have no idea how popular the program will be. The idea is to see if Congress is willing to fund it at all and if it doesn't take that much to run it then it will not all be spent.

The purpose of this two-fold; activity and efficiency. By controlling when people are hitting by providing supplies during only those times we can swing rounds when we need to win them. It also allows us to reward activity and create a greater sense of community. I picked Presidential Guard because it sounds important and elite, it's meant to be catchy. We can call it Chochi's Taint if it will do the same things.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:47 am

You're clearly missing the point (besides, Chochi's Taint is already your nick-name).

Most Canadians are in MUs. Military Units. That is a pre-existing in-game mechanic for fighting wars. If they aren't being utilized to your liking then we need to address why that is rather than propose another meta-MU that, with the current details, seems likely to fail. I still don't understand how you're going to know who to give weapons to.

Again, this proposal is woefully lacking in detail. You didn't answer any of my questions. "It depends" means you haven't thought this through at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:58 am

Chochi wrote:
You're clearly missing the point (besides, Chochi's Taint is already your nick-name).

Most Canadians are in MUs. Military Units. That is a pre-existing in-game mechanic for fighting wars. If they aren't being utilized to your liking then we need to address why that is rather than propose another meta-MU that, with the current details, seems likely to fail. I still don't understand how you're going to know who to give weapons to.

Again, this proposal is woefully lacking in detail. You didn't answer any of my questions. "It depends" means you haven't thought this through at all.

We create a sign up sheet, those who fill out the sign up sheet will be put into PM threads based on division. When we need damage the CP or MoD asks for it in the PM thread and those who have ffs would post their ffs and be directed towards the battle where we need damage. They would be given the tanks necessary to fight. Who gets tanks is dependent on who is available to fight when we need damage most. It's just like running #ecan-supply but it would not require irc. I'm not sure what exactly you don't understand about it.

You act like this is a new idea, but plenty of other countries use this same idea to train their people to hit at specific times during a battle in order to push battles into their favor when they need it most. The reason we do it this way as opposed to going through MUs is simple this allows the people actually running battle to know how much damage they have available before putting up COs. It's about coordinating the damage we actually have and unleashing in battles to turn the tide.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:26 am

I don't think this is a new idea. I think it's one you've poorly explained. You're finally on the right track though now that we know that those requesting weapons will have to do so in the PM itself.

But you're saying that there's no limit, eh? So if someone comes in and says they've got 100 energy bars, are you going to give them 1,000 Q7s? Or is the amount of weapons given going to be decided on the spot? What are the criteria going to be? What are the criteria going to be for even choosing battles?

Numbers! Details! Is it really that hard to flesh out your idea? How do other countries run these programs?

The Treasury isn't a bottomless pit. It needs to be replenished. This program shouldn't be seen as a bottomless pit, either. The bottom line is that if you want public money you should be willing to tell us exactly in what way it's going to be dispensed. If you are unwilling to do that then I would suggest withdrawing your proposal and doing this on your own dime so that we'll stop asking pesky questions you seem so unwilling to answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:34 am

If we needed 10000 energy to win a battle there would be no point in asking for damage. The idea is to ask for damage when battles are close and need to be won. We would only supply to keep the battle in our favor not run up the wall. Whether the wall is at 50.01% or 99.99% the points are the same so there is no need to run up the wall. For our purposes we would only supply until the wall were at 52% and keeping supplying for a round to keep the wall in our favor. So while there would be no hard limit on a round I would say 1000 tanks for a round is unlikely. At most I would assume most rounds would run no more than 100+ tanks for all recipients. The idea is to push walls in our favor during critical times in a battle not to overkill a round.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:11 am

Ok, now we're really getting somewhere. So what you're proposing is:
- the dispersal of $75,000 of public money for the creation of a Meta-MU called the Presidential Guards
- controlled by the President and MoD
- where this money will be kept is not yet known
- the President and MoD will decide which battles require extra damage
- the exact criteria for choosing battles is not yet known
- however the extra damage will only be to ensure that the wall gets to 52%
- the need for extra damage will be communicated to PMs organised by division
- people will need to fill out a form in order to be added to these PMs
- only Canadians can apply
- those wanting to contribute extra damage will communicate back this desire through those PMs
- the amount of food and weapons given out to each fighter will largely be based on how many food fights they have at that moment (right?)
- this amount could vary from battle to battle
- the amount of funding for any given round and any given battle could vary
- the criteria used to decide the three points immediately above are not yet known
- the speed at which the program will use the initial $75,000 has not been estimated

Am I missing anything? That's either facts presented or questions missed?

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks. There are still a few too many unknowns for my endorsement at this point. Let's see if we can't nail down some of these variables, ok?

Also, I'm not convinced that PMs are the best way of getting the message out. If people are already filling out forms just to join the PMs, why not create a simply one: id, maybe Division, and food fights available. When food and weapons are available, bring the form up live and link to it in the Battle Orders - presumably the President and MoD both have access to the org with the Battle Orders newspaper and can do this. Then we just need to make sure to reinforce the message of always checking the battle orders before fighting.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:32 am

Chochi wrote:
Ok, now we're really getting somewhere. So what you're proposing is:
- the dispersal of $75,000 of public money for the creation of a Meta-MU called the Presidential Guards
- controlled by the President and MoD
- where this money will be kept is not yet known
- the President and MoD will decide which battles require extra damage
- the exact criteria for choosing battles is not yet known
- however the extra damage will only be to ensure that the wall gets to 52%
- the need for extra damage will be communicated to PMs organised by division
- people will need to fill out a form in order to be added to these PMs
- only Canadians can apply
- those wanting to contribute extra damage will communicate back this desire through those PMs
- the amount of food and weapons given out to each fighter will largely be based on how many food fights they have at that moment (right?)
- this amount could vary from battle to battle
- the amount of funding for any given round and any given battle could vary
- the criteria used to decide the three points immediately above are not yet known
- the speed at which the program will use the initial $75,000 has not been estimated

Am I missing anything? That's either facts presented or questions missed?

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks. There are still a few too many unknowns for my endorsement at this point. Let's see if we can't nail down some of these variables, ok?

Also, I'm not convinced that PMs are the best way of getting the message out. If people are already filling out forms just to join the PMs, why not create a simply one: id, maybe Division, and food fights available. When food and weapons are available, bring the form up live and link to it in the Battle Orders - presumably the President and MoD both have access to the org with the Battle Orders newspaper and can do this. Then we just need to make sure to reinforce the message of always checking the battle orders before fighting.

Having them fill out forms daily wouldn't tell you who is actually available when we need the damage. I don't plan on giving people weapons when their damage isn't needed. The idea is to get people to hit when we need damage immediately not supply everyone for every battle we deem important regardless of when they hit. Think of it as timed strikes to push the wall not supplying for whole rounds.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:40 am

Maybe my suggestion wasn't clear enough but I'm not suggesting a daily form. I'm suggesting that when the CP or MoD needs damage that they say so in the Battle Orders by linking to a form. That form would only be created moments earlier by the CP or MoD for the express purpose of getting the names of people who can fight at that very moment. It would be a very simple form requesting only a link, maybe Division, and food fights available. When the moment requiring damage has passed, the form can be taken down, as can the link to it in the Battle Orders.

That would eliminate the need for sign-ups and for PMs and for the need to check PMs to see whether that last message was from right now or yesterday, etc. Plus it could potentially reach a far larger audience.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:55 am

I understand what you're trying to do.

I understand the purpose behind it.

I understand what you're trying to achieve.

What I don't understand is why this needs to be done with Public funds.

This seems like a text book perfect example of a project that could be started easily, and immediately by writing an article, and passing the hat. I'll pledge 1000 Q7s just to get you started.

If you're not looking for money for CO's and strictly want the money for food and guns there's much easier ways to get it then coming to Congress when we're already trying to figure out the financial shell game that's been happening for the past who knows how long.
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PostSubject: Re: Presidential Guard   Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:26 pm

I'd likewise kick in 1000 Q7s for a elite fighting force/President's Guard. I'm not sure there is a lack of supplies floating around. I think it's a lack of giving a damn. Even the regular MU/MoD group message has been dropped. If not for the MoD articles (when they are updated), I wouldn't know where to aim.

If this project promotes activity (because it's new and shinny and that's what new and shinny things do), then I'd say we should give it a shot.
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